for the companies were viewed as one grand challenge. >> host: so you have outlined a supply-side issue which is changing the algorithm and the demand side issue which is i want my expressed preferences to be weighed for and i would like to know what is being done to me in my name. if you could change one thing, if you could pick one of your suggestions or hopes from the filter bubble to see it happen in the world in the short term what would you change first? >> guest: i actually probably would do a facebook important button or something like that. there is a low hanging fruit intervention that could be made in the feed that because facebook is so much more important than atwitter for better or worse because -- they

are using it. if you could start to address that news fetus and that it was more permeable by information that without facebook having to impose this is important and this is not important but letting its community indicate that i think that could be, that could actually make a pretty significant difference in what a lot of people see with a fairly low that's not a whole new business for facebook to be. >> host: a completely new behavior either in stuff like we are adding important. thank you so much. it's great to sit down with you. ..

see on two, at tenement, "out of reach" recounts world war i. >> louisa thomas is a great granddaughter of norman thomas who ran for six elections and the socialist is it. he was a protestant clergyman and as the lead six players coming off and worked in a tenement houses. his focus is in east harlem, his experience may have been similar

had is focused on the lower east side. norman thomas dreamed of creatine in integrated harmonious new york, not ripping on the race and nationality. i imagine he would've been hurt by the families who lived in our tenement across the street. we have a recording of sicilian catholic women, josephine valdez he remembered as a coach she lived next-door to a lithuanian jewish family. on this habit she recalled mrs. roda chassis would call for josephine to turn the light on for her. 60 years later you could still hear the pride in her voice for being called upon for that task. it is entirely probable families that in our tenement, which is open until the year 1935 discussed are admired norman thomas. tonight we're pleased to discuss his life and work with louisa thomas, author of "conscience." it should be signing copies of the book after the talk. keep in mind when you buy a copy of the featured book, were supporting the author, publisher in a museum. if you choose to become a museum

member this evening, will give you a complimentary copy of "conscience." tonight's conversation is a tie jon meacham, executive editor and vice president ran an vice president random house conifer editor of "newsweek" and pulitzer prize-winning author and commentator on politics history of religious faith in?gg america.?g?g?g7g?g he is editor at large at wnet?gg public media and contributor to the pbs television newsmagazine. after their conversation, love the opportunity to ask questions presents a recording to its presentation, you have to ask questions from the microphone hereççççç [applause] >> thank you love very much.x thank you to the tenement museum who has been a relativelyyy short-lived become an important

part of the fabric of the city. you hear a lot even in the american south, where i come from. a deeply researched and engage in a written account of her own family, which is not always an easy thing to do. and they want to start with some specific questions and then we're going to read a couple of things. then they will be a little socialist jeopardy to keep her going. but will start with why this book now? >> this book is, as you can imagine from a family story, but also a story about an american family in the tie that were in a

time of the country was going through some major cultural, political, economic and social upheaval. you know, treachery was very different than it was a hundred years ago than today. but it looks more like it does today in world war i than at the beginning. during the war, when world war i began, most americans compact with federal government going to the post office. that was made in for an 81917 have been, suddenly, millions of men are being drafted. millions of men see their government and women, two and a much different light. and they were forced to reckon with what a citizen's obligation to his country is and what a

brother's obligation is to another brother, what sons and daughters and parents aren't away they hadn't only use before. of course these questions didn't just arrive on a day. they were planted in a few decades that had come before. you now, i think it is hard for us to realize just how striking were the changes from the beginning of the 20th century. but at the same time, we face these questions all the time. we're a country at war. we are also debating questions of to what extent should we be committing our resources and our citizens alliance and our money and our time and faith. not only to the government, but to our fellow citizens. you know, i think these are

perennial questions. and because the change is so extreme and the kind of transition is so violent, literally and figuratively, they have to reckon with these questions in a way that i think really brought them to the foyer. and looking at the way they did that, i think we can see how the question to live in our lives. >> when you think about the hero, really from tr through wilson, the turn-of-the-century, ever more rapid industrialization, a progressive movement for the social legislation that has ratified and increase by the new deal and son unto this hour. you have, as you say selective service system that actually engage the broad population when conflict came out.

would she say that that might be the most striking difference in terms that the issue that got all four of these brothers involved? it was not as good today we get to choose whether or not we're interested in serving. then, it was not so much choice and you're confronted much more correct we put the conscientious decision. do you fight, do not fight? is the cause chest? do you think that these brothers, given some other choice that they sort of been on at the context what it does the same issues? >> i think that's an excellent question. i think the fact that the doctrine that time were certainly some thing that forced the brothers to reckon with the

conflict in a way that most young people simply do not have to today. i mean, i never -- i've never once wondered if i was going to have to go to war for my country. you know, i was born a little after vietnam. a man, it's just not something that has ever crossed a line. i think that they died that war was very real and it required a kind of engagement and commitment that surpassed even what they have to do. norman thomas didn't have a say. he was older than the talk page. the clergymen would've also made me make sense. he had a large number that depended on him. he didn't have to engage in some sort of process that tested whether or not the country should be doing what it was doing. he:@ chose to.

but he chose to because so many people didn't have the choice and he thought that there was something odd about that. even the very selective service. there's an interesting story about this. by the united states went to war, there was some debate over whether or not there'd be a draft at all. there is some debate whether they would send soldiers here. there's a story even after the war separation when a congressman -- the military officers testified before congress on what resources they'll have to command and then he says of course we'll needmy soldiers. theg congressman does my god, y' you're not going to the soldiere here, are you? and nobody corrected name.cor and as late as mid-april, the was passinges

passing -- rejecting the draft and the measure. there was a man named george creel who was a journalist and after his decision to go to war he set up the committee on public information and -- >> he doesn't sound like one. [laughter] >> and one of the things for calling it selective service because selective, you know, appeals to the kind of principal of choice, suggests sacrifice, they didn't want to call the conscription, and the speech when she announced and said in

no way conscription isn't on willing. it is rather -- i don't know those exact phrase but it is the decision of people who volunteered in math. the studies implement the draft and said you have a choice you can enroll, join a group called the impleader were you will be deemed to have enlisted. [laughter] >> let's talk about the brothers' both in the context of the beginning of your story. who are they, where are they, what's coming on? >> norman thomas is the oldest. all brothers went to princeton. actually, had pretty much the same background. they were the son of a

presbyterian minister who was pretty conservative and very much of the widespread progress of ethos that held that times are getting better and norman went to princeton where he loved debate and the college professor. afterwards he became a minister. he actually went to work right across the island where he was exposed to some pretty extreme degradation although that's not really what radicalized him. there was the movement at side called the southern gospel movement which held that the point of christianity was not but to establish the king of god on earth and very much mainline protestant thinking.

so, young men coming out of ther middle class so they felt they were obligated. he then went to the seminary which is a pretty liberal seminary and a fancy church, looks like he's living a very comfortable life, and he and his wife decided to move to east harlem and work in the tenements you will see cotillions and hungarian, those are the two largest immigrant populations. at that time the country is just coming off the explosion of immigrants than the

second-generation americans, anv the change and he started oncu that half. while the second brother became an engineer, quite conservative, very happy lived a good life and perfectly victorian young men she enlisted right away in the army. and if her brother was much more

tortured. and this kind of effort they tended to make and were not doing anything and were not hypocritical. when the war broke out in europe and over the projection was and they're came back over the united states into the war and constantly have to push the boundaries to show that he was being treated on the self principles and keeping some kind of lights and in this young goose was less sure what to do. traveled to princeton, kind of didn't know what he wanted to do, thought about being a farmer, a missionary. >> you have these three mighty

oaks in front of you to get down a bit in the morning. [laughter] >> his mother wrote him a letter stating why do you sink there's no place in princeton for a boy such as you? [laughter] he wasn't so sure that it was a good idea but he was also not ready to go to prison, so a lot more like most of us. >> and their must have mother. >> there was and she was extraordinary. he she had her own extraordinary cast. she had grown up and missionaries and then her father the first presidents at one of the colleges in the reconstruction south. but she had a very conventional life in ohio, a lot of kids and involved in church causes she

was actually part of -- the most interesting person to me in some ways because she really struggled to negotiate between her children, even as her views were being challenged by them. >> so talk about norman and walk us through their real crises the brothers faced as the question on a surface. >> norman became a have pacifist involved in some organizations, millo tourism are the most prominent ones, and that was sort of the very nascent structure after the war. the reconciliation and then they went through the political

channels and also organizations, and he didn't believe in politics, very metal hit it and he had a kind of streak in him and he decided to come back to the united states and take a stand while the call for freedom kind of back-and-forth and he wanted to be a fighter pilot, very adventuress. >> arthur was my favorite. i identified most with him. we could do well to read this graph.

>> it can be a problematic notion. it can begin% of colleges and be used to justify any action, a group of germans that predated the nazi title for conscience. it can encourage learning of hamlet or to thyself be true. it can conflict with responsibility which sometimes means it's not perfectly right. >> how did that wonderful conscience played out for norman? >> it's funny because after norman established himself as the party daniel velte wrote an

essay about him and included the famous distinction between the ethics of responsibility and he thought they should have the efiks of conscience. i don't think that's fair. i think he was more alert to the compromises of the government, and i think of the brother is dangerous as thinking too much about how do we trigger instead of obligations you have to other people and that was something that he was at that time to read them after they had gone on a hunger strike in which he said

the challenge is to live among other people and fight to make sure what they have the opportunities you have so they can be true to themselves, and he basically had -- she was coming out of the background in which the ultimate statement of ethics comes about as a balancing act. they talked about freedom of conscience, so the idea of the freedom of conscience is that everybody -- you cannot -- it was something they were never able to and they could never

solve the problems that you had to engage in them. >> what norman thomas legacy be the persistence of the culture of the freedom of conscience or is it more specifically one towards what we would think of was non-violence and attempting to make gentle the life of this world really avoiding violence all costs? at all costs, and i'm going to come back to that. >> he did not remain a pacifist. i don't see why you also have(w schoomaker the even worse treatment. i think that he believes freedom of conscience meant in part repudiation of violence because

what is not imposing -- >> well, there's defense. islamic defense, too. >> there's the whole world war ii thing. >> but i also think that he is the civil rights movement involved in nuclear disarmament and i would hope speak to both as an issue. >> his pacifism was suspended after pearl harbor. she had seen too much not for the fascism in this country and

he worried that in light of the great depression and in light of what they saw the country would lead to the fascism here. we can't believe that it's the greatest generation. you know. >> there was a lot of fear. >> the one story i grew up knowing about norman thomas is partly apocryphal but involved in conversation with franklin roosevelt, you want to tell the story?[[ó[ó >> one of norman's causes in thó 1930's he was working on behalfw sharecroppers in the self being

murdered and other things are happening to them and there were drive-by shootings and unbelievable situations and when they try to unionize it got much, much worse and by the men carrying shotguns and you've got to do something, you've got to do something, and he goes and says you've got to do something this is just unconscionable. and he says you know what, norman, i'm a better politician than you are. nine of these people and they're doing good work done there and it's just going to take some time. and he says it can't wait, you

know, and this is the response, you can't wait, you can't let this go on, this is the response to what was happening in the south. ultimately things did change and it did take a lot of time but may be in the 1930's and the social climate, economic climate wouldn't allow for roosevelt to come in the national guard and change things. they had to wait 30 years. a lot of bad things happened throughout these years when it comes to racial violence. >> one of the things was awakened when eleanor brought him to the part of new york, and in so far as he was able to project those values domestically. where do you come out on the

issue of the limit of politics but the demand of justice? no one would argue now that the reconstruction because of the institution because of jim-crow, because of the robber barons in the north and the economic oppression many social reforms should have happened early and many social reforms that should happen right now will not because there's another man in the white house believes he's a better position and that tends to be an occupational hazard. where do you come out? were their moments where individuals to make this difference? >> if she were not married to the man at the white house -- [laughter]

i think she's one of those individuals who made a difference actually and fdr was, to back and he was pushing her and she was pushing him and it's much more organic thin you can point to someone and say here's the difference but i do think that politics is made of painful compromises all the time. nothing works according to plan and everything has its net and the others suggest that it got into a fight about politics and don't understand political risk making don't you understand that the st task to respond and in

the democracy over the responsibility -- wrote back we are not model headed. we are doing all sorts of things. you know, do i think that norman was an effective socialist or effective politician as a socialist? i think fdr was right, he was a better politician than norman. do i think there was a place for norman in the political system? yeah. absolutely. to might think that there should be more of those? i think so. i think that the health of a democracy requires a kind of open exchange of ideas, and the

kind of battles that he and norman and his friends during world war face about doing reform from the inside or the outside, try to get a seat at the table, do you -- what is the best way to get your point across, the message across to do justice. we just maybe aren't as noisy about them as people once were. >> that's a question i want to ask about generational responsibility. do you think that you're great-grandfather's generation -- did the media and political landscape give him a bigger voice as a socialist candidate, as a figure almost always of dissent move than we currently are able for whatever reason to give the voices outside theç

mainstream? or does the, you know, your generation has created this thing called the internal web, and is that going to open this up? >> i think it's say -- the internet is opening up and also drawling out. so it's hard to say for sure. i do think that you know, the american political system doesn't allow for ford parties very easily. and actually did a little bit more so in norman's time because socialism was a viable idea actually in 1912 using 6% of the vote. now if anyone calls themselves a socialist the would be, you know , considered evil actually were not see or whatever.

>> or the recipient of a wall street bailout. >> or the recipient of a wall street bailout, so yeah. i think that there's a little bit more generational complacency than there was in his generation may be because, you know, we don't have to go to war, maybe because it was just a smaller world, you know, you could get access to the president, it was just easier. >> it was smaller, but we now know -- we now know the things you don't want out certainlyñ have a tendency to get out.y why isn't there in this highlyñ educated, highly affluent generation of which you're a member a higher level of social

engagements in a way that we would recognize as a tendency in level from the early part of the century? >> i hear people say that there is more than, you know, more than meets the eye. i think that we could make the argument that people are involved in kind of community projects to a degree that has, you know, they might not be as interesting in the politics that they are interested in starting companies that might have renewable energy impacts or things like that, which have sort of like social ends. i think that one of your early questions is part of the answer. there's not a kind of demand upon my age immigration that there once was.

there's a draft. evin taxes are not very high. there's not three much asked of us and in a way we are sort of reverting back to your only interaction with federal government is the post office. the dmv. >> your passport, yeah. >> so, i mean, i don't think -- i'm not saying we should have a draft again. >> i think we should. >> well that's a different debate. that's actually an interesting debate i think. there is compelling arguments made for it. we ask a lot of our servicemen and the recruitment process is kind of marley. i think that there should be

more equitable sacrifice made across the population. >> reading the book i kept coming back to hearing these brothers thoroughly engaged he electrified political time projection of force, a president who had trouble with congress but managed to suspend civil liberties and to get his way to sound somewhat familiar. but one difference that kept coming back to my mind was because there is not a draft, because there is not the possibility that the upper-middle-class can be in harm's way it all becomes slightly academic. i would just suggest if we have with our approach is at the vietnam draft with all the exceptions to conserve

nationally, at home as opposed to militarily come all that, if that happens, is their anyone who plausibly believes we would have been in iraq past 2,004 or we would still be in afghanistan >> that's what i just said. this is a debate we can actually have because i think it's, you know, you can make an argument, at the same time i -- it's the kind of academic question. i don't feel it's going to happen. >> but your great-grandfather would say we have to have these. islamic academic arguments, g maybe. >> don't go pleading fdr on me. >> yeah, you know, one of the things to remember about the brothers and looking at the story is valuable is they were really working out how to answer some of these questions and there was an urgency because the

new questions and they felt them and these are questions we just don't feel the kind of tension between the responsibilities of individual, responsibility as a citizen, efiks versus morality, the sound academic terms but@ when it came down to it's like are you going to die for your country, are you going to change society in such a way that it's not as equal or unjust we have huge structural problems in thiñ country. our property right is like 22%,k second in mexico.@l it's just there's some really good things going on and they are not questions that most of us we could and think about. i certainly don't and i don't have to.

i'm lucky i got to live my life and pursue my opportunities and do what i want to do. >> i bring this up because i find the book a compelling -- the book raises these issues in a compelling and accomplice it way which is a very difficult thing to do, and anyone reading it now will find quite resident anything that is going on and on the folding of around the news now and forever more.eñ i'm going to ask you to read this and then we will take questions from you all. >> read that from the quotation in the letter. >> you're right or wrong he loved his family. 1941 while norman was publicly speaking out against the entry

into world war ii, his son volunteer to drive ambulances for the british just before he shipped out november, 1941, norman sent him a letter. g in a cruel and ugly world you made -- a chosin with this for you i'm sure the best possible course. more than i can tell you we will be missing you and loving you and wishing for the external good fortune and still more for the courage and hope which may sustain you. despite the follies and the madness of men made for better things than constantaw exploitation and ever occurringó war. will be happy and as always to carry a watch until you return to claim it. evan thomas ii was my grandfather and i have that watch now. it's a reminder of more than a father's love for his family and any other family to fight for freedom it's a reminder that the conscience was not the nation it was his own.

>> the book is conscience, louisa thomas, thank you. [applause] >> now we have instructions you must follow conscientiously. >> if people have questions they can come right up here for them. >> this gentleman has been taking notes. that's never a good sign. >> can you talk about norman's inspiration by the work of john reid? >> well, john reid -- in socialism of 1918, john reid, something we haven't mentioned there was a russian revolution that happened in 1917, and johnó reed, like many liberals across

the world was hugely inspired by this. norman was, too. so was walter lippmann and so was woodrow wilson. and the war address he said basically russia will be asked to test before democracy. i think norman was not kind of jazz inspired by the utility in a project as john was courted and to consider himself a marxist and when he applied for the socialist party he wrote a long letter explaining why he was really kind of not totally for the socialist party. >> and there you have the success. >> non-partisan lee and i fear that the socialist party isn't

always affecting civil liberties and not a marxist and, you know, i really fear any state whether capitalistic or socialistic that claims to have any control with over the - he sent this letter off and was returned to him because he hadn't. so, i think that he -- i actually -- if he knew john reid, i don't know, at this point in time, but certainly he knew people like matt, other socialists or scott, other people who were kind of part of that circle. his story is tragic in its own way and because of norman's

story was different, followed a different path. >> to what extent the slaughter going on in europe the past three years especially for evin who had been over in scotland, what influence he and norman fought as opposed to what ralf and arthur -- >> it was huge. i mean, world war i was just unbelievable. i mean, 1.8 million germans, 1.7 million russians, 1.4 million frenchmen, just the deaf even in the u.s., you know, the u.s. lost about 50,000, but really the fighting only lasted for six months. they were losing 820 men a day. that's just unbelievable.

you know, evan was over in scotland, and then also and london a little bit, and she saw what it was like to see men come home without limbs and things like that, and also what it was like to be in london when the bombs were falling, but every man response to violence and every culture responds in different ways, he was actually wounded on the western front and recuperated in these hospitals, but he remained proud of what he had done and father was the right thing until the end of the war she was disillusioned, so i think that and they were well aware of how devastating the violence was but i don't find predictably drove them when we

or another. but the extremity of the violence is one of the reasons why they thought they had to be fighting for something greater and that was true in every country and one of the reasons it had to be -- it would only be a just war and the life of the war would only be justified if something so great could emerge and that's one of the reasons why it was hard to give it up. it's just appalling. >> anything else? >> i'm curious how much the war was in imagination of the brothers especially given thed fact that their mother was as you said in south as i'm assuming whether or not her own parents were abolitionist or not but if these brothers and this

was the need in the 40's and should these the northern eletes involved in like protestant ideas of morality within the protestant church that they would have been the robert gould shaw like leading to brigade in certain ways so if this much violence is reflect the higher moral cause like emancipation they don't see that in world war i. do they talk about the civil war that might have been worth it is it in their consciousness at all? >> that pacifist movement that we were involved and they drew heavily on the example of the ocean us to eradicate the war that slavery had once been eradicated and people said that reform will be gradual and in possible whatever know, look, this happens. the war can be eradicated and it's a kind of slavery in its

own way. and they saw themselves as the inheritors of that tradition. the civil war is interesting because it is only a generation or two away in this time i get scene he had been in the civil war and said i have seen the war. we cannot go to war, but i think there are other certain historians who would say every generation fights its own war

a >> professor scott allard, what is "out of reach"? >> guest: well, this book was motivated by concern about rising poverty rates in the u.s. in the last decade that occurred during a time when the way we help support people changes as well. what is out of reach north of social service programs that compose of a large shared to help low-income americans. the book was focused on what these programs are located and how difficult it might be for low income for families to access. >> is this an example. >> guest: we think about cash assistance programs like welfare or food stamps. those are important, but we spent just as much money if not more than social service programs like job training, education, childcare, housing assistance, mental health,

substance abuse services that promote greater well-being, help people find and keep jobs. but a keyvalue job-training like i can like a welfare check for food stamp benefit. it's a way as the book discusses, in light of fact there's of where programs are located and it turns out the least assessable right when we came -- the least successful where neither the greatest. >> gives an example when it comes to job-training, how the program is out of reach. >> well, it's an interesting issue that you pick up job-training because the demand is really unique. not only do they connect to low skill, low-wage jobseekers come which tend to be concentrated in cities, but also in suburban areas. they also have to have access to stakeholders and vendors. they also get access to employers. there is not one location that's

going to meet all those needs. if you're close to your stakeholders come you might not be closed to employers. or close to clients come you might not be closed with the jobs are located. those providers face a difficult challenge can make some of the programs work well. they have to be located where jobs are in the suburban areas where employment opportunity currently is concentrated. that's difficult to get to those programs for populations that live in the inner-city that are isolated from public transportation may not have access to another mobile. but the mismatch as i describe in the book occur across a number of companies. >> what is one of the examples quite >> food pantries or organizations that provide emergency food assistance. you expect these to be located close to concentrations of low income. and they are. it's just in this case is the demand for services is so great

that there is a great access necessarily. for instance, if you're living next door to a food pantry this is 100 people but there is demand for help by 10,000 people in your neighborhood, they may not be true access compared to a setting where there may be some for 100 or 500 people. even though there are food pantries, they are not staff resources to meet the needs of surrounding communities. >> what did you find was the reason for this change in how we deliver social security? >> one of the things about the way we provide assistance today is social service programs aren't authorized by federal program or blocker. instead, they are funded through grants and programs at the federal state level as well as the local level. they drive revenues from nonprofit organizations and charitable foundations are philanthropies.

and because there's so many different revenue source is, it has emerged over time in a patchwork fashion. and that has created a setting where you have providers located in some places and not others. if you're a social service agency can use many demands of what you can afford, where you can hire a recruit staff or achieve economies to scale. you'll have stakeholders are individuals who make up raise funds. you have a certain community or area appeared all those things factor into where organizations located. in the end, there's a lot of metro areas with that, chicago, los angeles and washington d.c. that high poverty areas tend not to have adequate access are as much access to social service programs in low poverty areas. there's not one reason. it's a combination. in many communities it's hard to find and recruit staff to work

in some of the highest poverty neighborhood. frankly organizations prefer corridors and they're going to be a concern that has unintended consequences. it's hard to participate and receive help. >> host: so, with the solutions that? >> guest: in this environment it's tough about solutions often times in the tech about and social service programs were talk about the lack of adequate provisions. our gut instinct is to say we should spend our money or more public funds. in its current fiscal environment, it's not by local end of this apparent when i finished the book. so we have to think of strategies are solutions that allow to maximize and connect

people. so one goal to be to maintain public funding levels with us as we can. another might be to help people with sources of support for some of the mismatches or other community organizations that might be trusted with the people to help. another critical element to improving social services is for americans to increase their private support of the safety net. of the organizations reinterviewed are some money from individuals or private donations. it is just that we don't have enough. if americans thrilled to step up philanthropy, they open sites and programs that would help and will be on our private because that not only will translate

into dollars today for organizations, the greater public support down the road. >> host: arthur brooks, head of aei has endorsed her book. what is your relationship with ati or arthur brooks? >> guest: arthur has been a friend and a mentor of mine for many years. one of the nice about this book is that he's concerned about issues of poverty in america and how we help poor people. what i want to do is write a book that would not just connect to a broader array of individuals and organizations that work in this area. many of those are faith-based organizations. arthur understands how critical that factor is to the work we do and as you mentioned place suggestions as they structured the survey move forward. >> host: you are a professor at the university of chicago. what iraq? what you teach? >> guest: if a school social

worker between thousands of students to be part tensioners, counselors to serve millions of americans over the course of all their careers. i teach courses on the history of the welfare state. i also teach courses on issues of poverty in the spring and teach in a new on non-profit social innovation, which will be techniques for creating more organizations than this current economic environment. >> host: what you choose a social service sector? >> guest: that's an interesting question. when i was in college, my dad lost his job and didn't have a college degree and is hard for him to find work at a point when a stranger think of what he wanted to do. i took a class in social welfare policy and larry jacobs. in the content connected with me and i saw a way that i could take what is interested and

academically and people like my dad. it has been a real privilege to study something that elements interesting, but which has a social good in the long-term. >> host: who designed the cover of the book and why is it designed the way this? >> guest: it's is an interesting design. i give all the credit to yale university press. their graphic designers came up with it. as you notice, the black title is a little off the page symbolizing how out of reach social assistance has become for many americans. >> host: professor scott allard is the author of "out of reach: place, poverty, and the new american welfare state." he joins booktv at the university of chicago. ..